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B
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Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress
      #2777372 - 07/08/04 10:32 AM

Disclaimer and Rationale:

As I mentioned in the title of this thread, this is a work in progress. This is my attempt to create a fairly complete guide to the Psijic Order that I can publish on the Forum Scholars Guild website, and perhaps someday at The Imperial Library itself. The final version may never be completed, and even if it is, it may look quite different than the version you find here. On the html version, I intend to place pictures and links to the original writings so that a truly complete Guide can be viewed by the interested scholar. Well, at least that is my goal. I am posting the few paragraphs I have written not only to facilitate discussion, but also to motivate me into getting “off my lazy butt” and begin writing.

You might be asking yourself, “Why do we need a Guide to the Psijic Order when so much has already been written.” To that, I would say that the answer is not so clear. Yes, there are several sources of information about the Order. This is my attempt to combine the various writings into one guide. Also, it amazes me that there is still so much that is unknown about the Order even though there are many sources of information out there. And now . . .


Guide to the Psijic Order

    "It is interesting to note that their original views were very unorthodox for Altmer, and thus their exile from Alinor. These views included the suggestion that Anu’s son, the Time Dragon, was formed in reaction to Padhome’s influence. In effect, Anu had finally done something. This inconceivable effect gave rise to an equally inconceivable cause, and so PSJJJJ was named and the Order eventually took his name."

    -From the Teachings of Vehk
Early in Tamrielic history, an unorthodox group of Altmer was exiled from Alinor for their beliefs. These views included the suggestion that Anu’s son, the Time Dragon, was formed in reaction to Padhome’s influence. In effect, Anu had finally done something. Similar to the age old question of what happens when an Unstoppable Force meets an Immovable Object, this inconceivable effect gave rise to an equally inconceivable cause. PSJJJJ was named, and the Order took his name.

PSJJJJ

The name PSJJJJ is designed to be unpronounceable, but the name’s influence within the Order is tremendous. It is believed that PSJJJJ might be the Aldmeris or Old Ehlnofex name for Padhome [Padomay]. The Psijic Order is organized to divine this mystery of change. Change is the most sacred of the Eleven Forces within the Order.

The Eleven Forces

The complete list of the Eleven Forces is not very well known outside of the Order. The only one that has received publicity out side of Artaeum is Change. In the words of Taheritae the Sage:

    "In Mundus, conflict and disparity are what bring change, and change is the most sacred of the Eleven Forces. Change is the force without focus or origin. It is the duty of the disciplined Psijic [“Enlightened One”] to dilute change where it brings greed, gluttony, sloth, ignorance, prejudice, cruelty . . . and to encourage change where it brings excellence, beauty, happiness, and enlightenment. As such, the faithful counsel has but one master: His mind. If the man the Psijic counsels acts wickedly and brings oegnithr [“bad change”] and will otherwise not be counselled, it is the Psijic's duty to counterbalance the oegnithr by any means necessary [emphasis mine]."
One could certainly view the aforementioned passage as a mission statement for the Psijic Order, but their beliefs go much further than that.

Beliefs and Religion

In the simplest of terms, the religion of the Psijic Order can be described as ancestor worship . . . that’s all I have so far.

--------------------
~B

Assistant Librarian at The Imperial Library

Forum Scholars Guild | The Modern Adventurer

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Xanathar
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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: B]
      #2778168 - 07/08/04 01:59 PM

Great job, B! Some of the info are new to me. I can see that this is far from finish, I do hope that some scholars or devs (and ex-devs) can help you.

--------------------
~Xayah Ayem Neht
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Nazz
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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: B]
      #2778238 - 07/08/04 02:21 PM

It's good to see you getting back into researching the Pjijic Order. I must say so far it is a nice read. Can't wait till you write some more.

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The 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk
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Nigedo
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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: B]
      #2778555 - 07/08/04 04:02 PM

Nice one B. There's a great deal you can add to this and I hope you will.

I look forward to reading future installments.


--------------------
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B
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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: Nigedo]
      #2779080 - 07/08/04 08:54 PM

Thanks, guys!

Like you said, there is still a lot to be added, but I think if I do a little bit at a time, it will help motivate me.

My goal is to include as much information as I can find without making it too boring and a burden to read. It reads like an encyclopedia article, but that is the way I want to write it. It will be a straightforward guide that will basically be a survey of all the information that is out there.

--------------------
~B

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mafafu
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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: B]
      #2780130 - 07/09/04 03:24 AM

Interesting work, B.

--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
If you're not confused, you're not paying attention. - Tom Peters

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AttrebusModerator
Hitman

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Re: Guide to the Psijic Order -- A Work in Progress [Re: B]
      #2781582 - 07/09/04 09:31 AM

Great work so far Master B. I'm looking forward to reading more on this elusive Order.

--------------------
Remember the 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk.

A day devoted to Scholarly Pursuits and Truth.
And Stri'Ker, who died for these - May he be remembered always.

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B
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Beliefs and Religion [Re: Attrebus]
      #2781877 - 07/09/04 10:37 AM

Thanks, everyone! I'm starting to feel more and more motivated. Please remember that everything that I've written so far is in the rough draft stage. Feel free to correct, add, or delete things that I've said. Now, let me continue:

Beliefs and Religion

In the simplest of terms, the religion of the Psijic Order can be described as ancestor worship. Just as PSJJJJ is considered divine, so are the ancestor spirits. Dating back to the time of the original Acharyai [perhaps Tamriel first inhabitants?], it is believed that superior men and women have been granted significant power upon their deaths. Unseen by many, these ancestor spirits command great influence over our world while in the phantom world. In fact, according to the Psijic Order, the Daedra and gods that the common people worship are nothing more than the spirits of our ancestors. The Psijic Order calls their beliefs and customs the Old Ways.

As a member of the Psijic Order, it is important that he or she remains “faithful” to Old Ways. Members believe that the spiritual world is always watching our world, and a loyal Psijic will perform the Rites of Moawita on the 2nd of Hearth Fire and the Vigyld on the 1st of Second Seed in order to empower the salutary spirits and debilitate the unclean spirits.

With such beliefs, among a trained Psijic’s duties is the task of bringing power to “good” men and making sure men with power remain “good.” The Order believes that it cannot allow power to fall into the wrong hands. Loremaster Celarus, currently the head of the Psijic Order, sums it up in this fashion:
    We recognize the multiple threats that a strong tyrant represents -- breeds cruelty which feeds the Daedra Boethiah and hatred which feeds the Daedra Vaernima; if he should die having performed a particularly malevolent act, he may go to rule in Oblivion; and worst of all, he inspires other villains to thirst after power and other rulers to embrace villainy. Knowing this, we have developed patience in our dealings with such despots. They should be crippled, humiliated, impoverished, imprisoned. Other counsellors may advocate assassination or warfare -- which, aside from its spiritual insignificance, is expensive and likely to inflict at least as much pain on the innocents as the brutish dictator. No, we are intelligence gatherers, dignified diplomats -- not revolutionaries.
It appears that one of the primary goals of the Order is to bring about power and change that is in line with their beliefs but not the type of change that involves murder, death, or bloodshed—although one might imagine circumstances where some bloodshed might be necessary even for a member of the Order. In general, one could expect that type of thuggish brutality from the Morag Tong or the Dark Brotherhood, but not the Psijic Order.

In distributing this power, it is unclear whether the Psijics wish to become “gods” themselves or simple endow others with such gifts. Certainly, they do counsel great men and women on matters of importance and perhaps even lead them to becoming powerful in the afterworld, but unfortunately, a complete description of the endeavors and motives of the Psijic Order remains a mystery to this day.

--------------------
~B

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Gleb
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Re: Beliefs and Religion [Re: B]
      #2782075 - 07/09/04 11:31 AM

Acharyai=Aldmer=Elder Folk(Elhnofey?)
Ayleid=?=Wild Elves
Moriche=Dunmer=Dark Elves
Selache=Altmer=High Elves

I think those are the Old Cyrodiilic names for those races, though I'm not sure whether it's Old Cyrodiilic or simply Cyrodiilic, as neither is still the common tonuge, which would be Tamrielic. Just wished to state my beliefs on that matter. Fantastic paper, too.

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AttrebusModerator
Hitman

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Re: Beliefs and Religion [Re: B]
      #2782111 - 07/09/04 11:43 AM

The Beliefs and Religion section may be a good place to mention that the Psijic Endeavour isn't a belief of the Psijic Order. Unless you have plans for mentioning it later.

One last thing...
Quote:

It appears that one of the primary goals of the Order is to bring about power and change that is in line with their beliefs but not the type of change that involves murder, death, or bloodshed—although one might imagine circumstances where some bloodshed might be necessary even for a member of the Order.




Even with the hyphen, this sentence is far too long. Perhaps splitting it would be a good idea.

Keep it up!

--------------------
Remember the 4th of First Seed - Dusk and Dusk.

A day devoted to Scholarly Pursuits and Truth.
And Stri'Ker, who died for these - May he be remembered always.

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B
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Re: Beliefs and Religion [Re: Gleb]
      #2782114 - 07/09/04 11:45 AM

Thanks, Gleb!

I saw that Skeleton Man's Interview made reference to the Alcharyai as Aldmeri, but I wasn't sure how accurate that was.

EDIT: Thanks, Attrebus! I'll make the change to that sentence. Also, I wasn't sure if I was going to put "The Psijic Endeavor is not related to the Psijic Order" in that section or the next one. I'll wait and see.

--------------------
~B

Assistant Librarian at The Imperial Library

Forum Scholars Guild | The Modern Adventurer

Edited by B (07/09/04 11:48 AM)

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B
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It's Still Coming [Re: B]
      #2802981 - 07/14/04 10:36 AM

First, this will be added to the "Beliefs and Religion" section, after that last posted paragraph:

However, it is interesting to note that the endeavors of the Psijic Order do not seem to be related to the so-called Psijic Endeavor that is prominent in the providence of Morrowind. When Vivec was asked about the relationship between the Psijic Order and the Psijic Endeavor, he replied:
    Nothing but a namesake, I am sorry to say. Now we can end that mystery. The Endeavor is a method of achieving the Tower and then what to do after. The Order is not, and does not really care for the idea of the Endeavor at all, thinking it wrong-headed nearly from the start.
Master Divayth Fyr further corroborates this idea by saying, "...the Dwemer appear to have been most successful in the Endeavor than any mortal. Their Endeavor is not the shared Endeavor of the Old Way." Continuing on . . . and I've started to include authors' names to provide credit for their works in the Bibliography . . .

Counselors of Kings

Since the earliest written record of the Psijics (1E20), the Order has been known as the counselors of kings:
    A student of the Old Ways may indeed ally himself to a lord -- but it is a risky relationship. It cannot be stressed enough that the choice be wisely made. Should the lord refuse wise counsel and order the Psijic to perform an act contrary to the teachings of the Old Ways, there are few available options. The Psijic may obey, albeit unwillingly, and fall prey to the dark forces against which he has devoted his life. The Psijic may abandon his lord, which will bring shame on him and the Isle of Artaeum, and so may never be allowed home again. Or the Psijic may simply kill himself (Celarus).
Nevertheless, the Council of the Psijic Order has had a profound influence on Tamriel politics. Several kings of Summerset have sought their counsel, as well as Emperor Uriel V and Emperor Antiochus. “The last four emperors, Uriel VI, Morihatha, Pelagius IV, and Uriel VII, have been suspicious of the Psijics enough to refuse ambassadors from the Isle of Artaeum within the Imperial City” (Anselma).

Topics still to come include "Isle of Artaeum," "The Disappearance," "Mages Guild," "The Elder Way, Mysticism, and the Calling," "Sotha Sil’s Pact w/ Daedra," and "The War of the Isle."

--------------------
~B

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Tedders
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Re: It's Still Coming [Re: B]
      #2803341 - 07/14/04 12:01 PM

Very nice, B. You paraphrase some sometimes complex and contradictory concepts very well. In terms of lore, the Psijics share this in common with the Daedra: you can find references to them all over the place, but details are purposefully scarce for to reveal too much is to nullify their mystery.

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B
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Re: It's Still Coming [Re: Tedders]
      #2804828 - 07/14/04 08:42 PM

Thank you, Tedders. That really means a lot. I still have a lot of work to do, but it is nice to know that I've started off fairly well.

--------------------
~B

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Love_From_Above
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Re: It's Still Coming [Re: B]
      #2805970 - 07/15/04 02:57 AM

A couple quick comments I have B.

First off, bless you for starting this report. It's a really difficult one to grasp and I admire your resolve in wanting to paint a clearer picture for us plebians .

Secondly, in your report you've mentioned Vivec's speaking of PSJJJ more than I had realized he did. Do you think Vivec's involvement with the Order goes beyond just a living god's broad sweeping knowledge. In other words, could Vivec be a Psijic?

And lastly, I wouldn't give much creedance to the "11 Forces" especially if one of them happens to be "Change". The very definition of a force is the essence of change over time. So basically all of those 11 forces probably fit under the category of Change. It is possible however that the list is structured in hiearchal fashion with Change being the prime force (as the interview you pointed out would corroborate) and all of the other forces being resultant of Change. I dunno, just a thought.

It's good to see you again and with a topic I've been really looking forward to discussing. Thanks B!

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The Dude abides

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Adanorcil
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Re: It's Still Coming [Re: B]
      #2806079 - 07/15/04 03:23 AM

Good work, I love it. It's a good thing someone finally took the effort of combining all the knowledge about the Psijics. It's true, by the time you've read the last thing there is to read about the Old Ways etc., you've already forgotten about the first one.

I'm particulary looking forward to the part about the Old Ways and Mysticism. Of all the magic schools it interests me the most, it's somewhat the most handy school for mages (intervention, soul trap...)but also the most mysterious. (Hence its name, I guess. )

--------------------
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


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B
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Re: It's Still Coming [Re: Love_From_Above]
      #2807183 - 07/15/04 07:30 AM

Thanks to everyone for the support. All this talk is motivating me to keep on going.

Love_From_Above, I see what you’re saying about Vivec and PSJJJJ. I do not believe that he was a Psijic. Sotha Sil spent time on the Isle of Artaeum and taught there, so I believe that Sotha Sil was a Psijic. Sotha Sil could have shared his knowledge with Vivec (OOC explanation: On this forum, Vivec is/was MK, AKA Michael Kirkbride. He helped develop TES: III and a lot of the Lore contained within. He is extremely knowledgeable, and I think he shared information with us as Vivec that Vivec may or may not have known). In either case, Vivec is a “smart cookie” so it doesn’t surprise me that he has that information.

As far as the Eleven Forces go, I tend to agree with you. I do not know if there are 10 other forces. I left that section open so perhaps, one day, we will know. If it turns out that there aren’t eleven forces, I’ll change it. When I first read that passage in The Old Ways while playing Daggerfall, I read the word as Elven (as in the Altmer elves). Elven would make sense, too. I would love to ask Divayth Fyr or Loremaster Celarus if there truly are 11 forces. And if there are, then I would ask what the other 10 forces would be. Unfortunately, I think that may be asking too much.

--------------------
~B

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B
Disciple

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A Second Draft with Some New Additions [Re: B]
      #2807831 - 07/15/04 10:10 AM

Okay, I've added some new lines here and there so I wanted to repost the guide from the beginning. Also contained in this second draft are two new paragraphs: One on the Isle of Artaeum and one on the Disappearance of the isle. Please read through the entire thing and make comments. Thanks!

Guide to the Psijic Order

    It is interesting to note that their original views were very unorthodox for Altmer, and thus their exile from Alinor. These views included the suggestion that Anu’s son, the Time Dragon, was formed in reaction to Padhome’s influence. In effect, Anu had finally done something. This inconceivable effect gave rise to an equally inconceivable cause, and so PSJJJJ was named and the Order eventually took his name.
    -From the Teachings of Vehk
Early in Tamrielic history, an unorthodox group of Altmer was exiled from Alinor for their beliefs. These views included the suggestion that Anu’s son, the Time Dragon, was formed in reaction to Padhome’s influence. In effect, Anu had finally done something. Similar to the age old question of what happens when an Unstoppable Force meets an Immovable Object, this inconceivable effect gave rise to an equally inconceivable cause. PSJJJJ was named, and the Order took his name. Today, they are believed to be the oldest monastic group in Tamriel.

PSJJJJ

The name PSJJJJ is designed to be unpronounceable, but the name’s influence within the Order is tremendous. It is believed that PSJJJJ might be the Aldmeris or Old Ehlnofex name for Padhome [Padomay]. The Psijic Order is organized to divine this mystery of change. Change is the most sacred of the Eleven Forces within the Order.

The Eleven Forces

The complete list of the Eleven Forces is not very well known outside of the Order. The only one that has received publicity out side of Artaeum is Change. In the words of Taheritae the Sage:

    In Mundus, conflict and disparity are what bring change, and change is the most sacred of the Eleven Forces. Change is the force without focus or origin. It is the duty of the disciplined Psijic [“Enlightened One”] to dilute change where it brings greed, gluttony, sloth, ignorance, prejudice, cruelty . . . and to encourage change where it brings excellence, beauty, happiness, and enlightenment. As such, the faithful counsel has but one master: His mind. If the man the Psijic counsels acts wickedly and brings oegnithr [“bad change”] and will otherwise not be counselled, it is the Psijic's duty to counterbalance the oegnithr by any means necessary [emphasis mine].
One could certainly view the aforementioned passage as a mission statement for the Psijic Order, but their beliefs go much further than that.

Beliefs and Religion

In the simplest of terms, the religion of the Psijic Order can be described as ancestor worship. Just as PSJJJJ is considered divine, so are the ancestor spirits. Dating back to the time of the original Acharyai [perhaps Tamriel first inhabitants?], it is believed that superior men and women have been granted significant power upon their deaths. Unseen by many, these ancestor spirits command great influence over our world while in the phantom world. In fact, according to the Psijic Order, the Daedra and gods that the common people worship are nothing more than the spirits of our ancestors. The Psijic Order calls their beliefs and customs the Old Ways.

The Psijic Order chooses its members “by a complex, ritualized method not understood by the common people” (Salarth). Even though the Psijics are extremely reclusive, members of the Order can be recognized by the gray cloaks they choose to wear. Members are even referred to by this distinctive garment (Jarth).

As a member of the Psijic Order, it is important that he or she remains “faithful” to Old Ways. Members believe that the spiritual world is always watching our world, and a loyal gray cloak will perform the Rites of Moawita on the 2nd of Hearth Fire and the Vigyld on the 1st of Second Seed in order to empower the salutary spirits and debilitate the unclean spirits (Celarus).

Among a trained Psijic’s duties is the task of bringing power to “good” men and making sure men with power remain “good.” The Order believes that it cannot allow power to fall into the wrong hands. Loremaster Celarus, currently the head of the Psijic Order, sums it up in this fashion:

    We recognize the multiple threats that a strong tyrant represents -- breeds cruelty which feeds the Daedra Boethiah and hatred which feeds the Daedra Vaernima; if he should die having performed a particularly malevolent act, he may go to rule in Oblivion; and worst of all, he inspires other villains to thirst after power and other rulers to embrace villainy. Knowing this, we have developed patience in our dealings with such despots. They should be crippled, humiliated, impoverished, imprisoned. Other counsellors may advocate assassination or warfare -- which, aside from its spiritual insignificance, is expensive and likely to inflict at least as much pain on the innocents as the brutish dictator. No, we are intelligence gatherers, dignified diplomats -- not revolutionaries.
One of the primary goals of the Order is to distribute power as they see fit. If certain powerful people are deemed unworthy by the Order, then the Psijics will try and make a change. This change will not involve murder or any other form of assassination. In general, one could expect that type of thuggish brutality from the Morag Tong or the Dark Brotherhood but not the Psijic Order (Source of Chaos).

In distributing (and redistributing) this power, it is unclear whether the Psijics wish to become “gods” themselves or simple endow others with such gifts. Certainly, they do counsel great men and women on matters of importance and perhaps even lead them to becoming powerful in the afterworld, but unfortunately, a complete description of the endeavors and motives of the Psijic Order remains a mystery to this day.

However, it is interesting to note that the endeavors of the Psijic Order do not seem to be related to the so-called Psijic Endeavor that is prominent in the providence of Morrowind. When Vivec was asked about the relationship between the Psijic Order and the Psijic Endeavor, he replied:

    Nothing but a namesake, I am sorry to say. Now we can end that mystery. The Endeavor is a method of achieving the Tower and then what to do after. The Order is not, and does not really care for the idea of the Endeavor at all, thinking it wrong-headed nearly from the start.
Master Divayth Fyr further corroborates this idea by saying, “...the Dwemer appear to have been most successful in the Endeavor than any mortal. Their Endeavor is not the shared Endeavor of the Old Way.”

Counselors of Kings

Since the earliest written record of the Psijics (1E20), the Order has been known as the counselors of kings:

    A student of the Old Ways may indeed ally himself to a lord -- but it is a risky relationship. It cannot be stressed enough that the choice be wisely made. Should the lord refuse wise counsel and order the Psijic to perform an act contrary to the teachings of the Old Ways, there are few available options. The Psijic may obey, albeit unwillingly, and fall prey to the dark forces against which he has devoted his life. The Psijic may abandon his lord, which will bring shame on him and the Isle of Artaeum, and so may never be allowed home again. Or the Psijic may simply kill himself (Celarus).
Nevertheless, the Council of the Psijic Order has had a profound influence on Tamriel politics. Several kings of Summerset have sought their counsel, as well as Emperor Uriel V and Emperor Antiochus of Cyrodiil. “The last four emperors, Uriel VI, Morihatha, Pelagius IV, and Uriel VII, have been suspicious of the Psijics enough to refuse ambassadors from the Isle of Artaeum within the Imperial City” (il-Anselma).

The Isle of Artaeum

The Isle of Artaeum (ar-TAY-um) is the home of the Psijic Order. It is located in the Summerset Isle and is the third largest island in that region. “The Isle of Artaeum is difficult to chart geographically. It is said that it shifts continuously either at random or by decree of the Council” (il-Anselma). In fact, “When the Psijic Order does not wish someone to land on the island, the island and all on it become insubstantial” (Salarth).

Visitors to the isle are extremely rare, but Artaeum is believed to be elegant and beautiful. It is reported to contain idyllic orchards and clear pastures, still and silent lagoons, misty woodlands, and unique Psijic architecture that seems to be wondrous as well as natural to its surroundings. The Ceporah Tower, which is a relic from a civilization that predates the High Elves by several hundred years, is still used in certain rites by the Psijics. Anyone interested in meeting with the Psijic may find contacts in Potansa and Runcibae as well as many of the kingdoms of Summerset Isle (il-Anselma).

The Disappearance

Sometime around 2E230, the isle of Artaeum literally vanished from the sea. There have been various theories published about this event but none have been proven true. One popular story even states that Iachesis, Rite Master of the Psijics at that time, knew that the Psijics were going to leave:

    “No, the island will be leaving the sea,” said Iachesis, his voice taking on a dreamy quality. “In a few years, the mists will move over Artaeum and we will be gone. We are counselors by nature, and there are too many counselors in Tamriel as it is. No, we will go, and return when the land needs us again, perhaps in another age” (Townway).
Five hundred years passed, and the Isle of Arteaum returned just as mysteriously as it had left but with one important difference: Iachesis and the original Council of the Psijics did not return. The gray cloaks who did return could not nor would not offer an explanation for their disappearance. And unfortunately, they were unable to offer any explanation to the whereabouts of Iachesis and the Council. What is known is that the disappearance of Artaeum coincides with the founding of the Mages Guild (il-Anselma).

Next will be the relationship between the Psijic Order and the Mages Guild.

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~B

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B
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Now in html Format [Re: B]
      #2827447 - 07/20/04 11:25 AM

Nothing new as far as information goes, but I have the Guide in html format: Guide to the Psijic Order.

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FreddoModerator
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Re: Now in html Format [Re: B]
      #2827464 - 07/20/04 11:29 AM

Hooray!

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The Next Section of the Psijic Guide is Posted [Re: Freddo]
      #2948450 - 08/20/04 08:48 AM

The next section has been posted, and it is pretty much finished. I still have to go back and add some things here and there. The newest section is called "Mysticism, the Old Way, and the Mages Guild."

For all those knowledgable people out there, what is the relationship between the Psijic Order and the Mages Guild? Are they civil to each other, bitter enemies, or somewhere in between?

That good 'ol linky thingy--> A Guide to the Psijic Order

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Tedders
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Re: The Next Section of the Psijic Guide is Posted [Re: B]
      #2948517 - 08/20/04 09:08 AM

Another excellent update.

As for your question, I think you’ll find plenty of evidence of some at least civilized animosity in the lore. See how Potema manipulates the Psijics by bringing up the Mages Guild in the Wolf Queen series, for example.


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Loranna
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Re: The Next Section of the Psijic Guide is Posted [Re: B]
      #2948744 - 08/20/04 10:33 AM

... Almost every time I stop by this forum, I find out how truly deep the lore in this game can get sometimes - and how imperfect my own grasp of it is so far

Oh well; that's part of the fun here

Thanks for starting this project, B; I'll be watching for the final draft with eager eyes.

Loranna

--------------------
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Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: Loranna]
      #2967022 - 08/25/04 11:17 AM

Check out "Sotha Sil, the Dreaming Cavern, and a Pact with the Daedra."

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mafafu
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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: B]
      #2967379 - 08/25/04 01:25 PM

It's shaping up nicely B.

I'm really hoping that we'll get to learn more about the Psijics whenever the new game comes out. Or maybe a little before that.

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: mafafu]
      #2967403 - 08/25/04 01:33 PM

Quote:

I'm really hoping that we'll get to learn more about the Psijics whenever the new game comes out. Or maybe a little before that.




Me too.

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: B]
      #2967555 - 08/25/04 02:27 PM

Very nice, B.

One Obscured Text in the library -- which in fairness, since it didn't appear in the game, is probably apocryphal or unofficial lore -- may be of interest. The Xal-Gosleigh Letters from right in this very forum describes a bit of Artaeum, and even contains the first reference to the Dreaming Cave, before 2920.

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Xanathar
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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: Tedders]
      #2967848 - 08/25/04 04:29 PM

Any chance doing this kind of correspondence in the near future, Tedders?

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: Xanathar]
      #2968097 - 08/25/04 07:01 PM

Maybe, if I can get MK to play along, and we can come up with something fun to do. Letters are a good game because they're call and response, and they suit our different writing styles, but one always wants to do something different.

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: Tedders]
      #2968225 - 08/25/04 08:39 PM

Thanks, Tedders. You read my mind. I was considering whether or not to feed off of those letters. I was going to ask your opinion on their "lore value." It looks like I got my answer.

While we're on the subject of the letters, how "factual" is the other information contained within them? For example is Stichael Direnni a member of the Order, and is he related to the famous Direnni family?

And just to add to the group. . . I, too, loved those letters--and it has nothing to do with the fact that I’m mentioned in a couple of them either.

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: B]
      #2969012 - 08/26/04 02:58 AM

I'd leave it to you lore masters what to consider lore canon and what is apocrypha. Strictly speaking, if it's not in a game (and actually in the game, not in a text file that was never referenced, mere design flotsam and jetsam), I don't think it's Primary Lore.

Maybe it falls into the category of General Trivia?

Is there a Stichael Direnni and is he related to the family Direnni? Well, if he does exist, he's related. The name wasn't coincidental.

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: Tedders]
      #2969834 - 08/26/04 07:42 AM

Thanks again, Tedders!

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ReyZero
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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: B]
      #2971838 - 08/26/04 09:53 PM

Nice Work ! B or.......Behlorien...yes..i know your name Psijic

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Edited by ReyZero (08/26/04 09:55 PM)

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Re: Yet Another Section has been Posted [Re: B]
      #2974293 - 08/27/04 02:33 PM

Great stuff B !!

Side Note:

On Sotha Sil......... I think we need to look further into his 'supposed death'. I had a chance to explore the Clockwork City and something seemed very odd to me. Call it a feeling, but the place seemed 'alive'. If I have a chance I'll return one day to explore more. I'll support this 'feeling' with the acount of Almalexia when she struck him down. I think Sotha Sil may have struck out on his own "endevor". Time may tell.

])])]{

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Names [Re: ReyZero]
      #2974891 - 08/27/04 08:14 PM

Quote:

Nice Work ! B or.......Behlorien...yes..i know your name Psijic



"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet"

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